working4christ2

SHENGTON · Jul 4, '11, 12:07 am

Hello guys, good morning.

I'm a Roman Catholic and I'm starting to read the bible. I'm just confused with this verses in Genesis in chapter 3.

Genesis 3:14-15
(14) Then the Lord God said to the snake, "You will be punished for this; you alone of all the animals must bear this curse: from now on you will crawl on your belly, and you will have to eat dust as long as you live.
(15) I will make you and the woman hate each other; her offspring and yours will always be enemies. Her offspring will crush your head, and you will bite her offspring's heel.

In verse 14, God punished the snake "will crawl on your belly" and "eat dust", we know that the snake will crawl and eat flesh .

My questions for verse 14:
1. Why does God punished the snake to crawl forever if He created/designed the snake like that already in the time of creation?
2. What does this mean "you will eat dust"?

My question in verse 15:
1. What does the highlighted red text mean?

Hope someone will explain to me the red texts that I highlighted.

Thanks and God bless.

Little One0307 · #2 Jul 4, '11, 1:02 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SHENGTON

Hello guys, good morning.

I'm a Roman Catholic and I'm starting to read the bible. I'm just confused with this verses in Genesis in chapter 3.

Genesis 3:14-15
(14) Then the Lord God said to the snake, "You will be punished for this; you alone of all the animals must bear this curse: from now on you will crawl on your belly, and you will have to eat dust as long as you live.
(15) I will make you and the woman hate each other; her offspring and yours will always be enemies. Her offspring will crush your head, and you will bite her offspring's heel.

In verse 14, God punished the snake "will crawl on your belly" and "eat dust", we know that the snake will crawl and eat flesh .

My questions for verse 14:
1. Why does God punished the snake to crawl forever if He created/designed the snake like that already in the time of creation?
2. What does this mean "you will eat dust"?

My question in verse 15:
1. What does the highlighted red text mean?

Hope someone will explain to me the red texts that I highlighted.

Thanks and God bless.

Question no. 1 - I heard that snakes did not always crawl. Their bone structure actually allowed them to walk aright or something like that. I heard that several years ago, but as to it being accurate I cannot vouch for it, it was just interesting. I think it was more to humble Satan, it was symbolic of God's dominion over him. But this is an interesting question for sure.

Question 2 - Ever hear of the saying be ye humbled to the dust. You can't go any lower than the dust. - that is my interpretation on it. I am however very open to the Magisterium of the Church so if anyone has the official interpreation please by all means let this One of Little know so that I may be inline with the Magisterium.

You question on vs. 15 refers to a prophecy referring to Jesus and to Mary. There is much about Jesus being the New Adam and Mary as the New Eve. Also by Jesus dying on the cross he crushed for all times Satan's dominion over us.

It will be interesting to watch this thread. Thanks for posting this.

God bless.

GEddie · #3 Jul 4, '11, 1:14 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little One0307

Question no. 1 - I heard that snakes did not always crawl. Their bone structure actually allowed them to walk aright or something like that. I heard that several years ago, but as to it being accurate I cannot vouch for it, it was just interesting. I think it was more to humble Satan, it was symbolic of God's dominion over him. But this is an interesting question for sure.

A being can't "walk" without limbs.

However, there are still some snakes in South America that glide from tree to tree, using their tubular body as a kind of wing. Other snakes live in trees, and the one A&E saw may have done that, since it was after all in a garden.

The dust has to do more with humiliation, IMNAAHO.

ICXC NIKA.

Petergee · #4 Jul 4, '11, 1:28 am

The snake is a metaphor for the Devil, as we see earlier in Genesis.
The prophecy means that the Devil will attack all men, but that one Man will completely overcome him.

JM3 · #5 Jul 4, '11, 1:58 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SHENGTON

Hello guys, good morning.

I'm a Roman Catholic and I'm starting to read the bible. I'm just confused with this verses in Genesis in chapter 3.

Genesis 3:14-15
(14) Then the Lord God said to the snake, "You will be punished for this; you alone of all the animals must bear this curse: from now on you will crawl on your belly, and you will have to eat dust as long as you live.
(15) I will make you and the woman hate each other; her offspring and yours will always be enemies. Her offspring will crush your head, and you will bite her offspring's heel.

In verse 14, God punished the snake "will crawl on your belly" and "eat dust", we know that the snake will crawl and eat flesh .

My questions for verse 14:
1. Why does God punished the snake to crawl forever if He created/designed the snake like that already in the time of creation?
2. What does this mean "you will eat dust"?

My question in verse 15:
1. What does the highlighted red text mean?

Hope someone will explain to me the red texts that I highlighted.

Thanks and God bless.

http://www.veritasbible.com/commentary/haydock

Quote:

She shall crush.Ipsa, the woman: so divers of the fathers read this place, conformably to the Latin: others read it ipsum, viz. the seed. The sense is the same: for it is by her seed, Jesus Christ, that the woman crushes the serpent's head. Ch. --- The Hebrew text, as Bellarmine observes, is ambiguous: He mentions one copy which had ipsa instead of ipsum; and so it is even printed in the Hebrew interlineary edition, 1572, by Plantin, under the inspection of Boderianus. Whether the Jewish editions ought to have more weight with Christians, or whether all the other MSS. conspire against this reading, let others inquire. The fathers who have cited the old Italic version, taken from the Sept. agree with the Vulgate, which is followed by almost all the Latins; and hence we may argue with probability, that the Sept. and the Hebrew formerly acknowledged ipsa, which now moves the indignation of Protestants so much, as if we intended by it to give any divine honour to the blessed Virgin. We believe, however, with S. Epiphanius, that "it is no less criminal to vilify the holy Virgin, than to glorify her above measure." We know that all the power of the mother of God is derived from the merits of her Son. We are no otherwise concerned about the retaining of ipsa, she, in this place, that in as much as we have yet no certain reason to suspect its being genuine. As some words have been corrected in the Vulgate since the Council of Trent by Sixtus V. and others, by Clement VIII. so, if, upon stricter search, it be found that it, and not she, is the true reading, we shall not hesitate to admit the correction: but we must wait in the mean time respectfully, till our superiors determine. H. Kemnitzius certainly advanced a step too far, when he said that all the ancient fathers read ipsum. Victor, Avitus, S. Aug. S. Greg. &c. mentioned in the Douay Bible, will convict him of falsehood. Christ crushed the serpent's head by his death, suffering himself to be wounded in the heel. His blessed mother crushed him likewise, by her co-operation in the mystery of the Incarnation; and by rejecting, with horror, the very first suggestions of the enemy, to commit even the smallest sin. S. Bern. ser. 2, on Missus est. "We crush," says S. Greg. Mor. 1. 38, "the serpent's head, when we extirpate from our heart the beginnings of temptation, and then he lays snares for our heel, because he opposes the end of a good action with greater craft and power." The serpent may hiss and threaten; he cannot hurt, if we resist him. H.

karebear92 · #6 Jul 4, '11, 2:05 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SHENGTON

In verse 14, God punished the snake "will crawl on your belly" and "eat dust", we know that the snake will crawl and eat flesh .

My questions for verse 14:
1. Why does God punished the snake to crawl forever if He created/designed the snake like that already in the time of creation?
2. What does this mean "you will eat dust"?

My question in verse 15:
1. What does the highlighted red text mean?

Hope someone will explain to me the red texts that I highlighted.

Thanks and God bless.

To answer your question to verse 15, He is saying that humans will eventually overcome evil, which, connected to the New Testament, is found through the Messiah. If you have seen The Passion of The Christ, I believe this is why Jesus is depicted crushing the head of the snake in the opening scene (in Gethsemane). Obviously the movie isn't infallible or anything, but I just realized that it was in there (I also realize that this didn't really happen, as the serpent was crushed by Christ's death). It is also explained that "the seed of the women, that is, mankind descended from Eve, will eventually gain victory over the powers of evil. This victory will, of course, be gained through the work of the Messiah who is par excellence the seed of the women." RSV-CE 2nd edition Bible (the one by Ignatius Press).

As for your first two questions, I am not certain. I like Little One's answer to the first question. The second one I find interesting, and this is more answering a question with another question, but: could it be similar to descending, as in eternal damnation? Or we are given the body and blood of Christ to eat to nourish our souls and give us eternal life and Satan is given dust, which does not nourish (although he is not a human, so I don't know if this could apply to him). So if you were to put this with the New Testament, we are given eternal life through the body of Christ and Satan is given dust, a substance that can not nourish, and therefore he can never attain more than eternal damnation. Those are just my thoughts, so don't take them as anything more, please. It is also very late, so I could read this tomorrow (or, rather, later today) and realize that I made absolutely no sense.

Little One0307 · #7 Jul 4, '11, 7:10 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by karebear92

To answer your question to verse 15, He is saying that humans will eventually overcome evil, which, connected to the New Testament, is found through the Messiah. If you have seen The Passion of The Christ, I believe this is why Jesus is depicted crushing the head of the snake in the opening scene (in Gethsemane). Obviously the movie isn't infallible or anything, but I just realized that it was in there (I also realize that this didn't really happen, as the serpent was crushed by Christ's death). It is also explained that "the seed of the women, that is, mankind descended from Eve, will eventually gain victory over the powers of evil. This victory will, of course, be gained through the work of the Messiah who is par excellence the seed of the women." RSV-CE 2nd edition Bible (the one by Ignatius Press).

As for your first two questions, I am not certain. I like Little One's answer to the first question. The second one I find interesting, and this is more answering a question with another question, but: could it be similar to descending, as in eternal damnation? Or we are given the body and blood of Christ to eat to nourish our souls and give us eternal life and Satan is given dust, which does not nourish (although he is not a human, so I don't know if this could apply to him). So if you were to put this with the New Testament, we are given eternal life through the body of Christ and Satan is given dust, a substance that can not nourish, and therefore he can never attain more than eternal damnation. Those are just my thoughts, so don't take them as anything more, please. It is also very late, so I could read this tomorrow (or, rather, later today) and realize that I made absolutely no sense.

I really like how you brought Holy Communion in there like that. I guess expanding on what you said, everything is dust compared to Holy Communion, and without the Sacraments, God, and the Church we are wretched worms crawling about the dust of iniquity and sin. [ooops that was a bit redundant but I'll leave it.]

God bless.

COPLAND 3 · #8 Jul 4, '11, 9:18 am

Here are the footnotes from my study Bible

Quote:

3:1 The serpent is the Devil, that is Satan, in which serpent is used figuratively (see Rev. 20:2). Some great commentators have suggested that the Devil was speaking through a snake just like how an angel spoke through a donkey to Balaam in Number 22, either way Satan is the tempter here. (John Litteral) CCC 391

3:14 see note 3:1. The animal itself also became the object of the curse for the benefit of humanity. When we see the snake crawling and slithering on the ground, we remember the original curse and understand the extent of the evil caused by sin. As the snake is born to move in this fashion, it received no harm from the curse. (Theodoret of Cyrus)

3:15 This passage in Genesis is called the Protoevangelium ("first gospel"): the first announcement of the Messiah and Redeemer, of a battle between the serpent and the Woman, and of the final victory of a descendant of hers. CCC 410

Pope John Paul II shows us how this relates to Mary and the Lord Jesus... "She (Mary) is "a woman clothed with the sun", with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of stars (cf. Rev 12:1). One can say she is a Woman of cosmic scale, on a scale with the whole work of creation. At the same time she is "suffering the pangs and anguish of childbirth" (Rev 12:2) like Eve "the mother of all the living" (Gen 3:20). She also suffers because "before the woman who is about to give birth" (cf. Rev 12:4) there stands "the great dragon ... that ancient serpent" (Rev 12:9), already known from the Proto-evangelium: the Evil One, the "father of lies" and of sin (cf. Jn 8:44). The "ancient serpent" wishes to devour "the child". While we see in this text an echo of the Infancy Narrative (cf. Mt 2:13,16), we can also see that the struggle with evil and the Evil One marks the biblical exemplar of the "woman" from the beginning to the end of history. It is also a struggle for man, for his true good, for his salvation. Is not the Bible trying to tell us that it is precisely in the "woman" - Eve-Mary - that history witnesses a dramatic struggle for every human being, the struggle for his or her fundamental "yes" or "no" to God and God's eternal plan for humanity?" John Paul II MULIERIS DIGNITATEM

Here is the link to the Study Bible Gen 3 http://ocsb.wetpaint.com/page/Genesis+3

SHENGTON · #9 Jul 4, '11, 10:02 am

Thanks guys, but what does the "crawl" and "dust" means there in verse 14?

Thanks and God bless.

PJM · #10 Jul 4, '11, 1:10 pm

Quote:

=SHENGTON;8069932]Hello guys, good morning.

I'm a Roman Catholic and I'm starting to read the bible. I'm just confused with this verses in Genesis in chapter 3.

Genesis 3:14-15
(14) Then the Lord God said to the snake, "You will be punished for this; you alone of all the animals must bear this curse: from now on you will crawl on your belly, and you will have to eat dust as long as you live.
(15) I will make you and the woman hate each other; her offspring and yours will always be enemies. Her offspring will crush your head, and you will bite her offspring's heel.

In verse 14, God punished the snake "will crawl on your belly" and "eat dust", we know that the snake will crawl and eat flesh .

My questions for verse 14:
1. Why does God punished the snake to crawl forever if He created/designed the snake like that already in the time of creation?

2. What does this mean "you will eat dust"?

My question in verse 15:
1. What does the highlighted red text mean?

Hope someone will explain to me the red texts that I highlighted.

Thanks and God bless.

Friend you may wish to get a different bible. The red [it's been A LONG TIME sice I've seen it] is an explaination of the text.

Haydock's Catholic Bible Commentary:

Ver. 14. Cursed. This curse falls upon the natural serpent, as the instrument of the devil; who is also cursed at the same time by the Holy Ghost. What was natural to the serpent and to man in a state of innocence, (as to creep, &c. to submit to the dominion of the husband, &c.) becomes a punishment after the fall. (St. Chrysostom) --- There was no enmity, before, between man and any of God's creatures; nor were they noxious to him. (Tirinus) --- The devil seems now to crawl, because he no longer aspires after God and heavenly things, but aims at wickedness and mean deceit. (Menochius)

I think this answers your questions?

Try either the RSV or the New American Bible.

God Bless,
Pat

justtryin · #11 Jul 4, '11, 2:26 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by PJM

The devil seems now to crawl, because he no longer aspires after God and heavenly things, but aims at wickedness and mean deceit.

This part is interesting. Can it be said that the devil's pride (in wanting to be like God) has, in this moment, deteriorated into spite toward God? (the devil will deliberately seek to hurt and offend God by turning His created against Him?)

PJM · #12 Jul 4, '11, 5:22 pm

Quote:

=justtryin;8071895]This part is interesting. Can it be said that the devil's pride (in wanting to be like God) has, in this moment, deteriorated into spite toward God? (the devil will deliberately seek to hurt and offend God by turning His created against Him?)

THAT is a correct statement. PRIDE after all is satans most POWERFUL and FREQUENT tool

God Bless,
Pat

SHENGTON · #13 Jul 5, '11, 11:03 am

Hello PJM, good morning.

Thanks for helping me, I really appreciate your effort.

However, I'm talking about the "crawl" and "dust" that God said. I know God cursed the snake. But what does those two words mean?

Because I believe there's a meaning each of those words.

Thanks and God bless.

mcrow · #14 Jul 5, '11, 11:24 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SHENGTON

Hello PJM, good morning.

Thanks for helping me, I really appreciate your effort.

However, I'm talking about the "crawl" and "dust" that God said. I know God cursed the snake. But what does those two words mean?

Because I believe there's a meaning each of those words.

Thanks and God bless.

I think you are over complicating these two words.

Crawling, opposed to walking like God's greatest earthly creations, is just a symbolic lowliness and you cannot get any more lowly than crawling in the dust. Also, keep in mind that one who begs may also crawl or kneel to feet of the superior as a show of status (that he is lower and the other is higher).

Basically, the snake(Satan) is being doomed to be the lowliest of the low and The Lord the highest of the high. This strikes a great contrast between good and evil.

Not only that but the "Woman" crushing his head is no doubt Mary, Mother of God.

PJM · #15 Jul 5, '11, 3:45 pm

Quote:

=SHENGTON;8075089]Hello PJM, good morning.

Thanks for helping me, I really appreciate your effort.

However, I'm talking about the "crawl" and "dust" that God said. I know God cursed the snake. But what does those two words mean?

Because I believe there's a meaning each of those words.

Thanks and God bless.

I could guess but that would be all it is

God Bless,
Pat

working4christ2

Wednesday, February 20, 2013

THE CHILDREN OF EDOM KNOW THEY ARE THE SEED OF SATAN !!!!!! GEN 3:14-15,...bible commentary with patrick j miron

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