patrick j miron What might we know [Biblically] but not know?--

Bookmark the permalink. A New Series on Apologetices … Lesson #1     Q5 . If you are Born of God, [Baptized?] deception and commentary  ARE you a Child of God? John 1:12; Rom. 8:16. John 1:12 “But as many as received him, he gave them power to be made the sons of God, to them that believe in his name” Once again we have a different version of “by Faith Alone.” A very believable and powerful message when taken out of context. patrick j miron deception and commentary They trend to the first teaching but at times ignore that it is clearly a “conditional offer.”  Then even if they accept that its “conditional,” they claim an unwarranted right to define for themselves what the conditions are. Not permitting God to “be in charge”; and therefore they commonly miss the actual teaching God requires. This is a great example of US needing to know what is true; and how to prove it. Rom. 8:16 “For the Spirit himself giveth testimony to our spirit, that we are the sons of God. ” Keep in mind the question being asked: cf. “DO YOU have the Spirit of God living in you?” … I’d bet nearly 100%claim that they do? patrick j miron deception and commentary Response: But even if they do, how do they know for sure? My guess is that the answer has something to do with “Speaking in Tongues” which they commonly hold as the “end-all” of all Spiritual Gifts.    patrick j miron deception and commentary So are they saying that “if one does not have the Gift of tongues”; the HS  is NOT with them?  no patrick j miron that is not it--( tongues is a sign for the "unbeliver")  Yes, I think that is often their point; and it’s wrong! patrick j miron deception and commentary   That is NOT what Paul actually teaches: 1Cor.12 Verses 26 to 31”If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together.  Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, then healers, helpers, administrators, speakers in various [LAST Listed] kinds of tongues.   Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?  Do all possess gifts of healing?   Do all speak with tongues?  [NO is implied]   Do all interpret?  But earnestly desire the higher gifts. And I will show you a still more excellent way.”  AND 1st.Cor. 14: Verses 5, 13 “Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy.  He who prophesies is greater than he who speaks in tongues, unless some one interprets, ( editor this is not hard to do) so that the church may be edified. Therefore, he who speaks in a tongue should pray for the power to interpret.” Speaking in tongues is a good thing; made far better when they or someone else can interpret it “for the benefit of the church. ” I know only a few catholics who are so Blessed.  This stems from the fact that it is not a Gift we ask for from the HS, enough.    patrick j miron deception and commentary We certainly do NOT wish to claim that The Holy Spirit is NOT In some manner available to our Protestant brethren . patrick j miron deception and commentary  He may well be with them is some manner?  BUT not in the fullness that He is within the Catholic Church and our Sacraments, (EDitor yes the catholic church has  the most MAN-MADE Religious triditions that were developed and added to the TORAH -- and the  work of God is specific-- nothing to be add or taken away)   patrick j miron deception and commentary and especially in it’s Informed and fully practicing members. READ: John 14:165-17 and fulfilled in John 20:22. Christ made this promise to ONLY His Catholic Church. But God in Divine Justice can be with those who out if involuntary ignorance [NOT of there own choice or doing]; do worship God as best and as fully as they are able to do so. We’ll end this First Lesson in our new Series here. Continued Blessing. READ the bible and pray often! Patrick68           Jan6     Mar 26, '12, 5:09 pm

PJM Senior Member   Join Date: August 31, 2008 Posts: 8,507 Religion: Informed, practicing RomanCatholic

What might we know [Biblically] but not know? As a life long Catholic I regullary encounter unbelief in this or that from the bible. Ocassionaly from catholics and with GREAT regularty from other Christians. What teachings of Christ can be self-determined? PLEASE be specifc and give a reason for your position. And what teachings of Christ "don't mean what they say/" And WHY not? God Bless, Pat __________________ PJM http://working4christ2.wordpress.com Can we partake of God's GLORY and NOT partake of His PASSION? NO! A.B. Fulton Sheen: "The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it, and a lie is still a lie, even if everybody believes it."

#2   Mar 26, '12, 7:50 pm

bscastro Prayer Warrior   Join Date: February 28, 2006 Posts: 707 Religion: Catholic

Re: What might we know [Biblically] but not know? Sorry I'm not directly answering the question. Just wanted to say that I just try to obey the Church that Jesus Christ gave us. I know I usually screw things up when I put my own mind to it, so I say yes to Jesus and to His Church - the Catholic Church. Not an apologetically mature position, but it works for me. This is not to say that scriptural knowledge and apologetics is not important, but I have the starting point that the Church is right, and then work from there, while others work from the premise that the Church is wrong and needs to defend its position. God bless, Bryan __________________ The Lord is kind and merciful. I believe one of God's most under-appreciated gifts to us is the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

#3   Mar 26, '12, 7:53 pm

CopticChristian Regular Member   Join Date: July 26, 2011 Posts: 7,703 Religion: Catholic

Re: What might we know [Biblically] but not know? Quote: Originally Posted by PJM As a life long Catholic I regullary encounter unbelief in this or that from the bible. Ocassionaly from catholics and with GREAT regularty from other Christians. What teachings of Christ can be self-determined? PLEASE be specifc and give a reason for your position. And what teachings of Christ "don't mean what they say/" And WHY not? God Bless, Pat I believe that the Protestant mind would do summersaults over this. My mind has no answer other than teachings of the Church are based on Scripture/Tradition/ as interpreted by the Magesterium. So whatever I have concerning questions about the Bible would cause me to see what the Church says and relieve my anxiety about my beliefs. Protestants I would imagine may have difficulty with this.

#4   Mar 27, '12, 9:41 am

rinnie Veteran Member Prayer Warrior   Join Date: September 17, 2007 Posts: 10,991 Religion: Roman Catholic

Re: What might we know [Biblically] but not know? Quote: Originally Posted by PJM As a life long Catholic I regullary encounter unbelief in this or that from the bible. Ocassionaly from catholics and with GREAT regularty from other Christians. What teachings of Christ can be self-determined? PLEASE be specifc and give a reason for your position. And what teachings of Christ "don't mean what they say/" And WHY not? God Bless, Pat Well okay the teaching let no man call you Father. Jesus did not mean to not call any man Father. He was correcting Men who were taking the truth and twisting it for themself. He meant what he was saying as far as his correction. But many Protestants take that a face value. And say Jesus said let no man call you Father, he said it, but did not mean not to call any man your Father.

#5   Mar 27, '12, 9:42 am

rinnie Veteran Member Prayer Warrior   Join Date: September 17, 2007 Posts: 10,991 Religion: Roman Catholic

Re: What might we know [Biblically] but not know? Self determined. The Church and I are One. He meant what he said, and it true.

#6   Mar 28, '12, 10:02 pm

shangbuqi Trial Membership   Join Date: March 28, 2012 Posts: 4 Religion: Protestant

Re: What might we know [Biblically] but not know? This is not to say that scriptural knowledge and apologetics is not important, but I have the starting point that the Church is right, and then work from there, while others work from the premise that the Church is wrong and needs to defend its position.

#7   Mar 29, '12, 3:52 am

edcvfr Banned   Join Date: March 29, 2012 Posts: 6 Religion: Catholic

Re: What might we know [Biblically] but not know? So whatever I have concerning questions about the Bible would cause me to see what the Church says and relieve my anxiety about my beliefs.

#8   Mar 29, '12, 8:57 am

PJM Senior Member   Join Date: August 31, 2008 Posts: 8,507 Religion: Informed, practicing RomanCatholic

Re: What might we know [Biblically] but not know? Quote: =edcvfr;9120659]So whatever I have concerning questions about the Bible would cause me to see what the Church says and relieve my anxiety about my beliefs. My friend, If you'd care to be more specif I'll resond to what issues concern you, God bless you, Pat __________________ PJM