Torah Portion Vayakhel/Pekudei- Passion For Truth Ministries--Re: The Body of Christ And The Church

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#46   Yesterday, 10:22 am

Publisher Senior Member   Join Date: January 31, 2007 Posts: 6,131 Religion: Quaker

Re: The Body of Christ And The Church Quote: Originally Posted by aidanbradypop So what you are stating is the the Catholic Church is not the one true Church, but all believers in Christ make up the "church" or body of Christ? Yes....even Catholic teaching states that Protestants are "imperfecly" joined to the Catholic church thru their baptism.....even if one is "imperfectly joined"....one is still "joined. If I believed the Catholic church was the one church organization that was His Body...I'd be a member of it.....but since I don't I find myself joined with His Body by the work of His Holy Spirit....the need for others of His Body to accept me as a member isn't nearly as important to me as my belief THEY are members of His Body....doesn't matter what "they" think of me and behave toward me...it only matters that I embrace them as brothers and sisters in Christ. I disagree with that premise simply because as a Friend, I have never undergone a 'ritual cleansing" of water, I am not a member of His Body.. We are not joined to His Body by a ritual of iniation, but by His Holy Spirit joining us to Him...indwelling us...Baptizing us into His Body.....since He only has One Body to belong to, with each of us as members....any who are joined to Christ by grace thru faith are members of this One Body....irrespective of the name of the tradition on the sign in front of their meetinghouse.

#47   Yesterday, 12:54 pm

Isaiah45_9 Regular Member Book Club Member   Join Date: June 23, 2011 Posts: 917 Religion: Católico

Re: The Body of Christ And The Church Quote: Originally Posted by Publisher I disagree with that premise simply because as a Friend, I have never undergone a 'ritual cleansing" of water, I am not a member of His Body.. We are not joined to His Body by a ritual of iniation, but by His Holy Spirit joining us to Him...indwelling us...Baptizing us into His Body.....since He only has One Body to belong to, with each of us as members....any who are joined to Christ by grace thru faith are members of this One Body....irrespective of the name of the tradition on the sign in front of their meetinghouse. Friend, if by "ritual of cleansing" you mean water baptism. Jesus seems to disagree with you: Mark 16:16 Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE) 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. Matthew 28:18-20 Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE) 18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.” __________________ Let nothing disturb you, Let nothing frighten you, All things are passing; God only is changeless. Patience gains all things. Who has God is missing nothing. God alone suffices. Santa Teresa de Avila

#48   Yesterday, 2:51 pm

Publisher Senior Member   Join Date: January 31, 2007 Posts: 6,131 Religion: Quaker

Re: The Body of Christ And The Church Quote: Originally Posted by Isaiah45_9 Friend, if by "ritual of cleansing" you mean water baptism. Jesus seems to disagree with you: Mark 16:16 Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE) 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. Matthew 28:18-20 Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE) 18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.” Friend, I understand your position....I simply do not agree with it.

#49   Yesterday, 2:53 pm

aidanbradypop New Member Prayer Warrior   Join Date: January 15, 2013 Posts: 1,132 Religion: Irish Catholic

Re: The Body of Christ And The Church Quote: Originally Posted by Publisher Friend, I understand your position....I simply do not agree with it. How do you not believe it when it is clearly written in Scripture? I do not have much information on Quackerism. Can you reject certain Scripture? Thanks __________________ No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again; this charge I have received from my Father. John 10:18

#50   Yesterday, 3:41 pm

Publisher Senior Member   Join Date: January 31, 2007 Posts: 6,131 Religion: Quaker

Re: The Body of Christ And The Church Quote: Originally Posted by aidanbradypop How do you not believe it when it is clearly written in Scripture? I do not have much information on Quackerism. Can you reject certain Scripture? Thanks I don't "reject" certain scripture...I understand it differently than you. "Baptize" does not always mean to "dip" or "dunk" in water. "There is one coming after me that will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire." Matt 3:11 “You do not know what you are asking. Are you able to drink the cup that I drink, or to be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized?” Mark 10:38 In Hebrews chaper 9 deals with various Jewish rituals which were "prefigured"...."....gifts and sacrifices are offered that cannot perfect the conscience of the worshipper, but deal only with food and drink and various baptisms, regulations for the body imposed unti the tim comes to set things right....." Things were set right thru Christ not thru ritual cleansings or offerings of animal blood. Your quote of Mark 16 is often not found in the older mauscripts...in most modern translations simply relegated as a footnote indicates dubious "authority" at best. My understanding was Jesus is recorded to have said "go and teach...baptizing...immersing them in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit." The first followers of Jesus were Jews....Acts displays they still practiced Jewish customs....even Paul had Timothy circumcised so he could enter the temple. Peter had a vision which changed his understanding of Jewish customs and beliefs...of which baptism of water was one custom....as no longer being in effect to make one "unclean". Baptism with water was one such practice that continued...but in light of the work of Christ in our lives and the cleansing power of the Holy Spirit, a "ritual washing" hardly seems necessary when the One Baptism that truly cleanses has been experienced. It is not Catholic belief...and I don't expect you to embrace the Quaker understanding...my understanding impacts your salvation in no way....just as your beliefs impact mine. Oh....just a side note....I sincerly hope your use of "Quackerism" was a typo, and not meant to be an insult one could "backpeddle" away from if called on.

#51   Yesterday, 3:44 pm

Tunesmith Trial Membership   Join Date: March 12, 2013 Posts: 6 Religion: Christian

Re: The Body of Christ And The Church Quote: Originally Posted by aidanbradypop Can you reject certain Scripture? Thanks Every church and denomination rejects certain scripture.

#52   Yesterday, 3:47 pm

Publisher Senior Member   Join Date: January 31, 2007 Posts: 6,131 Religion: Quaker

Re: The Body of Christ And The Church Quote: Originally Posted by Tunesmith Every church and denomination rejects certain scripture. No friend, that is not true....they simply reject your understanding of "certain scriptures".

#53   Yesterday, 3:54 pm

aidanbradypop New Member Prayer Warrior   Join Date: January 15, 2013 Posts: 1,132 Religion: Irish Catholic

Re: The Body of Christ And The Church Quote: Originally Posted by Publisher Oh....just a side note....I sincerly hope your use of "Quackerism" was a typo, and not meant to be an insult one could "backpeddle" away from if called on. Thanks for your input. I have no clue what Quakers believe, so its nice to hear about it. side note: How on earth is Quackerism viewed as an insult? It was totally a typo lol sorry about that __________________ No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again; this charge I have received from my Father. John 10:18

#54   Yesterday, 4:03 pm

Publisher Senior Member   Join Date: January 31, 2007 Posts: 6,131 Religion: Quaker

Re: The Body of Christ And The Church Quote: Originally Posted by aidanbradypop Thanks for your input. I have no clue what Quakers believe, so its nice to hear about it. side note: How on earth is Quackerism viewed as an insult? It was totally a typo lol sorry about that I don't know too many people who enjoy being called a "quack" when discussing spiritual issues.....and it is very good to know it was simply a typo. I am feeling a bit under the weather today....so perhaps I'm overly sensitive.

#55   Yesterday, 6:09 pm

Isaiah45_9 Regular Member Book Club Member   Join Date: June 23, 2011 Posts: 917 Religion: Católico

Re: The Body of Christ And The Church Quote: Originally Posted by Publisher Friend, I understand your position....I simply do not agree with it. In all honesty, I don't think I have a position other than to obey what the Lord commands. As such, my position is one of obedience and not one of agreement. May the Lord lift your spirit from "under the weather" __________________ Let nothing disturb you, Let nothing frighten you, All things are passing; God only is changeless. Patience gains all things. Who has God is missing nothing. God alone suffices. Santa Teresa de Avila

#56   Yesterday, 8:19 pm

SteveVH Regular Member   Join Date: March 18, 2009 Posts: 4,158 Religion: Catholic

Re: The Body of Christ And The Church I said this: Quote: Originally Posted by SteveVH Yes, it is the Eucharist that truly makes us one Body. Christ dwells in us and we dwell in him. That is unity and that is one body in Christ; the Church. If a body is not one it cannot function as a body. Those who imagine unity in the Body of Christ absent the Eucharist imagine a body without a head. Without the head the body cannot live and without the Eucharist there is no Body of Christ. Its that important. You said this: Quote: Originally Posted by PJM Steve; HOW can this possibilt be true when: Only The Catholic churchs and orthodox have it? and Most protestats don't believe or accept it How can what possibly be true? All I have said is that the Eucharist makes us one body. I did not say with whom. Obviously we are not one body with those who do not have a valid Eucharist. Not sure what your point is. __________________ "Let the time come when those who should oblige the servant of God, do the contrary to him, and what degree of patience and humility he has then, that is the degree he has and no more." - St. Francis of Assisi

#57   Today, 8:40 am

Anna Scott Regular Member   Join Date: May 23, 2009 Posts: 4,472 Religion: Anglo Catholic fighting for orthodoxy in TEC

Re: The Body of Christ And The Church Quote: Originally Posted by SteveVH . . . .Obviously we are not one body with those who do not have a valid Eucharist. . . . Steve, Are you saying that those who do not have a "valid Eucharist," in the eyes of the Catholic Church, are not part of the one Body of Christ? Anna __________________ Anna Scott (Pen Name) “Preach the Gospel at all times and when necessary use words.” ---St. Francis of Assisi

#58   Today, 8:52 am

aidanbradypop New Member Prayer Warrior   Join Date: January 15, 2013 Posts: 1,132 Religion: Irish Catholic

Re: The Body of Christ And The Church Quote: Originally Posted by Anna Scott Steve, Are you saying that those who do not have a "valid Eucharist," in the eyes of the Catholic Church, are not part of the one Body of Christ? Anna CCC 838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323 With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord's Eucharist."324 __________________ No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again; this charge I have received from my Father. John 10:18

#59   Today, 9:04 am

Anna Scott Regular Member   Join Date: May 23, 2009 Posts: 4,472 Religion: Anglo Catholic fighting for orthodoxy in TEC

Re: The Body of Christ And The Church Quote: Originally Posted by aidanbradypop CCC 838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323 With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord's Eucharist."324 Irish, I'm very familiar with CCC838. I was asking Steve for a clarification regarding his statement, " we are not one body with those who do not have a valid Eucharist." Anna __________________ Anna Scott (Pen Name) “Preach the Gospel at all times and when necessary use words.” ---St. Francis of Assisi

#60   Today, 9:05 am

aidanbradypop New Member Prayer Warrior   Join Date: January 15, 2013 Posts: 1,132 Religion: Irish Catholic

Re: The Body of Christ And The Church Quote: Originally Posted by Anna Scott Irish, I'm very familiar with CCC838. I was asking Steve for a clarification regarding his statement, " we are not one body with those who do not have a valid Eucharist." Anna